Discussions
Back to Discussions
Is such wording natural?

Is such wording natural?

Lolopinchik
I thought it's supposed to be "I have had both". Are there any other cases where you can split have+verb?

24 comments

The_Werefrog•
The comma shouldn't be before the and in the second sentence. A comma before a conjunction indicates that what comes before and what comes after the conjunction are both independent clauses. That is, they can both be stand alone sentences without the conjunction between them. Also, it does feel more natural to put the word both after the word had in that sentence. Putting it before the verb indicates that one would expect another verb for the second topic indicated by the word both.
Proto4454•
I did not consent for this to be reposted. Please downvote or remove this post.
Independent-You-7551•
I'd say "I've had the issue of a card being both too simple and too complex."
GIowZ•
I would say “I have had both…” when typing. If I were speaking I would probably say “I have **both** had…” with the word “both” having more emphasis. I’m unsure if it’s grammatically correct or not but it’s completely understandable for native speakers
Acrobatic_Fan_8183•
If "both" and "had" switch places it's perfectly fine.
DriftingWisp•
This breaks something called parallelism. When you say "I have both ..." you're going to list two things, and they need to be listed in the same way. The same format, or part of the sentence. I'm not sure how to describe it properly. Here the two things are "had the issue of a card being too simple" and "too complex". These are different parts of the sentence, so they don't both continue properly out of the original both, one is "had the issue of ..." while the other is just "too complex". That's bad. There are a few ways you could fix it. The easiest way to make it match would be "I have both had the issue of a card being too simple, and had the issue of it being too complex". It's grammatically correct, but feels awkward because it's repetitive. Another way to fix it is to move where both is. "I have had the issues of both a card being too simple and it being too complex". Now the parts indicated by the both, "a card being too simple" and "it being too complex", match properly. This one feels like it could be a little ambiguous though. Is it two different cards having opposite issues, or one card having both issues at the same time? If I were writing it I'd probably just rephrase the whole thing to avoid needing to combine "the issue of" and "both" in the same sentence.
borodino21•
I would put the "both" between "being" and "too simple." Also, the comma after simple is incorrect.
stink3rb3lle•
I'd put "both" before the verbs if I'm using different verbs. Since they didn't, yes it should come after. I would both try out this construction, and practice other phrases to keep learning. Also it sounds like that user is not a native English speaker themselves.
Kryomon•
You're right, they're wrong
Lesbianfool•
“I have had both” would’ve been my wording. It’s possible the original commenter was typing too fast. If I type really fast I occasionally make small mistakes like that
Proto4454•
It's natural. It's correct. I am the OP. I did not consent for this to be reposted on this sub.
Proto4454•
Please remove this post or blur my username I did not approve of this being reposted. I don't know if it violates any rules but it's just rude.
Proto4454•
Please remove this post. I did not consent for my username to be shared to this sub. I do not know u/Lolopinchik I did not agree for my username to be shared here.
lime--green•
I think it is
Darthplagueis13•
I think you're correct there. Going by the comment here, the commenter is German, and I believe they accidentially transferred a more German syntax into English. You see, in German, the phrase "I have had both" would be "Ich habe beides gehabt", and if you take a good look at those words, you can probably identify which English words they're the counterpart of - and you'll recognize this posters phrasing.
IT_scrub•
It's perfectly natural. It can be expressed either way
RynoVirus•
As a native speaker, it works and is intelligible, but i wouldn’t say it’s natural. I would definitely be using “I have had both.” If you want it to sound more informal and conversational, I’d go with a contraction, “I’ve had both”, because it flows better and feels much more natural.
Yofi•
There are tons of times when you can split "have" and the verb like this: I have never had the issue I have often had the issue I have always had the issue I have unfortunately had the issue
Low_Operation_6446•
While it might not be technically grammatical and it's definitely more natural to say "I have had both...", I can understand it perfectly and probably wouldn't think twice about hearing it in a conversation.
Tracker_Nivrig•
I think you're right, most of the time you wouldn't see wording like this. When people do structure it this way, it's to put emphasis on "both," but I'm unsure if it's grammatically correct or not. It definitely could be, but it's something that sounds weird to me as a native speaker.
joshuafknight•
As others have discussed, the sentence lacks parallel structure which isn't a grammatical issue but a stylistic one. High level writing should aim to conform to parallel structure as it is more natural and aims to guide the reader to the distinction that is being made between the two items. The placement following the "both" is emphatic and can be a verb, noun, adjective, adverb, or phrase depending on what the writer wishes to emphasize. In your example, the writer mistakenly places the emphasis on the verb "had" when the distinction should be on the adjectives "simple" and "complex". To answer your question, a more appropriate sentence where the have+verb are split could be: "I have both passed and flunked tests in biology, so I'm not sure whether to major in science" where the emphasis is placed on the actions/verbs "passed" and "flunked". This is because "both" is an adverb in this example, and you are allowed to include adverbial modifiers in that have+verb space: "I have disappointingly failed another biology exam." Google "correlative conjunction" to learn specifically about the "both... and..." construction if you are curious.
Frederf220•
The correct wording is "have had" followed by "both" as you say. Verbally the form above is "I have both: 1. had X & 2 . Y." By putting the both first there's an implied colon and then listing both items. Since it can work verbally, people my write how they speak but drop the punctuation. It would be weird to see it written with the punctuation so one should just write it in the normal grammar manner.
macoafi•
You can put “have both had” BUT in order to maintain parallel construction, the second part of the “both” should also start with a past participle. I have **both** had a pedicure **and** gone dancing. That is a combination of “I have had a pedicure” and “I have gone dancing.” The “both” sets up two branching endings of the sentence, and the “and” marks where one ends and the other begins. What you shared is a combination of “I have had the issue…” and “I have too complex,” the latter of which is nonsensical.
SnooComics6403•
Honestly you can just drop the "both" and the comma in ", and" for the sentence to read better. The "," only exists as a textual clue for the reader to pause his breath. You shouldn't be trying to study his choice of words and grammar.