do you think native speakers should be taught proper english language tenses/forms?

I did study these things in (public) school. We had grammar class in elementary school where we went over tenses, correctly using conjunctions, punctuation, etc.

I was briefly taught these things in middle school, but I never appreciated them until learning a second language. They say you can’t really understand a language until you know two, and I tend to agree.

No. Native speakers learn how to communicate and use their language effortlessly and fluently in a totally different way to speakers who learn as a second language. There is no need to learn grammatical language or rule - these are internalised during development without ever needing to express a grammar rule or label for a tense.

Yes, you should learn them. In many countries, it is entirely normal to study the grammar of one’s native language. While knowing the “rules” may not improve your skills as a native speaker, having no understanding of basic concepts - such as what the present continuous tense is - is quite embarrassing imo. Also, learning the grammar of your own language allows you to explain things more clearly if an English learner asks you for help. And just because you speak English well doesn’t mean that every native speaker does. Many make basic mistakes all the time and I am not referring to the common there/their/their mistake, but to things like saying “I have ate”.

Yes

We were taught this all through public school. It was different times then, but we now get to post positively in this sub, because we "know stuff". Grammar and spelling are rarely in the curriculum now because of spell check and other AI correcting software.

No. Language changes and that is exactly how and why it changes. For the most part, language isn't prescriptive. There isn't one set way to say or do things. Especially in English where there are SO MANY speakers from different countries (thanks colonialism!) and to think it should be only spoken one way is a detriment to the human experience. Also, native monolingual speakers are very rarely taught their own language's rules. At least not explicitly.

Unless I’m going to be teaching English learners I can’t think of a single way that knowing all of this information would help me in life. Now, I do kind of know what all the tenses are if I stop and think about it because of learning Spanish, but I never think about it when speaking bc I don’t need to. Have you ever look up the tables of English conjugations? As a native speaker who intuitively understands all of the conjugations and situations they’re used in, when I look at those tables it just hurts my brain honestly

I don't see any point in learning that stuff for most people. It doesn't help you write better or speak better, it's descriptive grammar of a language natives already know how to use.

i think it's a fun optional thing beyond the absolute basics! i love talking about more advanced concepts with other nerds but i don't see any *value* in learning about it if you're already fluent/native

First through like fifth grade is sometimes called “Grammar school.” I learned it there, and I bet more native speakers did too than they themselves realize: the thing is, we likely don’t remember a lot from that age because we were little kids. Whereas if you’re learning another language as an adult, your brain is working differently now with age and experience. For example, I distinctly have a memory of Miss Berger, my second grade teacher, reviewing “helping” verbs for past tense but I just took it for granted until I began studying other languages when I was older and I was like “oh that’s auxiliary verbs but made kid-friendly.” Public school, NJ, 1990s.

I think they should. But it shouldn't be super stressed. Mainly so that when they are adults they might want to work in something where precise writing matters, like law or science. Having the formal exposure young should make it easier to master when older.

For the more complex tenses like perfect and perfect continuous there's no need. The rules and everything are actually pretty complex but native speakers understand them intuitively. It's easy enough to learn about it later if needed, if you become a teacher or start learning other languages in depth. Not your questions but I do think we absolutely should continue to learn about more basic linguistic things like nouns, verbs, adjectives, conjunctions, articles etc because it helps perfect your speech and talk about writing in a more detailed way, and is invaluable when learning another language. I teach Japanese JHS students and they don't learn nouns, verbs, adjectives etc in Japanese, so we have to teach them grammar and English at the same time.

> do you think native speakers should be taught proper english language tenses/forms? The thing is, what determines which forms are 'proper' and which aren't? Dialectal valuations aren't objective, but determined by the societal perception of the speakers—Southern AmE is considered 'uneducated' because its speakers are considered uneducated, same with AAVE, &c. > you never actually learn things like, “the present continuous tense”, “the past simple tense”, and so on. English grammar terminology being taught would be great—that isn't the same thing, however, as teaching the 'proper' way to speak. > before i joined this subreddit, i had no idea these existed. i’m not sure how i feel about them existing. i dont know anything about them, but i would think my english is pretty good, considering i’m a native speaker lol. Exactly—L1 language proficiency has nothing to do with how well you understand the grammar.

Very surface level part of the English curriculum, in a way that is useful for editing writing, yes. Things like tenses? Generally no.

Yes, but make sure to do it in such a way that isn’t demeaning. I think it’s a bit ridiculous to expect people to understand something like punctuation without a good grasp of the formal grammar.

So many commenters seem never to have learned another language! (I'm assuming mostly Americans, and yet I thought most Americans learn Spanish at school??) I was taught nouns, verbs and adjectives at primary school, and I figured out adverbs for myself. My husband wasn't even taught that much. At high school I did Latin and Japanese, and it was well over a year before I realised that subject/object meant the same as nominative/accusative, and another year before I could recognise them without a great deal of thought. Learning a bit more grammar earlier would have put me streets ahead when it came to learning other languages. Now my husband and I are both ESL teachers, but he still has to consciously figure out a lot of this stuff each time.

Most people do not need to know these things. Would it be nice to learn them? Sure. But for a monolingual (or someone with two languages they acquired early in childhood), there's little reason. You understand how to speak in your native language(s) very intuitively, since the first several years of your life are essentially all pure input. My partner is Dutch, they learned English informally through video games, the Internet, and other English-language material at a young age. I know much more about grammar than them despite being monolingual (for now). A child's brain is very adept at learning languages with little friction, they don't need to know proper construction of complex, niche tenses that are often vague about their use. You probably use these tenses without even knowing what they are or why you're using them, you intuitively know how to, later-grade English classes are usually for literature and culture, as well as composition, you know all the grammar you need to for that, generally. Besides, what counts as the "proper" way to speak English? General American? Standardized British English? What makes them more proper than AAVE or Scots (if you're of the belief Scots is a dialect and not its own language)? Both of these have complex rules that are almost never taught formally, but their speakers know them intuitively, just like English as a whole. Labelling a dialect as "proper" is deeply loaded and extremely contentious, lol.

Studying Japanese/Spanish, and now trying to help people out with English have taught me more about grammar than I have ever learned growing up lmao

We do learn these things in middle school, we just rarely have a reason to use them unless we're learning another language so we usually forget them.

I was homeschooled and learned this stuff, so I’ve never understood why we don’t teach kids grammar. I guess I always assumed it was just a sign of how bad US education is. But looking at the comments here I’m wondering if this is a more common sentiment - that there’s no point in understanding how your own native language works. I only wish I’d had some broader-scope linguistic education that helped me connect the concepts I was learning in a foreign language to the ones I knew in English. (And of course more foreign language learning from an earlier age)

Yesssss Because then when you try and learn another language you know what grammar is

We do learn those things in school... We just don't have much need to remember them after so very few really retain all of that information.

I don't really think there's any reason for natives to learn it unless they go into teaching. It serves (imo) no benefit; we are native speakers—we already know how to intuitively use them. I feel it's the same for most languages. At least in r/spanish there's always a bunch of native speakers saying, "what's the subjunctive lmao."